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Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: David Bowler, Switzerland Thu 24 Jan 2013 10:43
Lincs Road Car operated a number of long radiator open platform LDs, e.g. 2301-8 (KFW312-9) and 2311, some of which were rebuilt with short radiators and/or enclosed plaforms later. In order to modify the new Base-Toys 1:76 LD model can anybody please tell me which vehicles operated with two rear platform windows and an open platform (as the model), and advise their depot allocation. A photo image for modelling purposes would be much appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: Jonathan (LVVS) Fri 25 Jan 2013 15:45
Interesting that you raise this, as we've been discussing this in respect of our own Lodekka recently, to try and get the history right.
It appears that some Lodekkas were built with a traditional open platform (i.e. including a section cut away from the rear profile as well), some with the more common manual door and rear emergency exit (hence 2 rear windows), but a few - from what I gather including some of Lincolnshire's - were built with the semi enclosed platform and emergency exit, but no door in the nearside.
I understand that a proper emergency exit was a legal requirement if there wasn't the conventional open platform, whether or not there was a door on the platform.
It is often difficult to tell from photographs whether a door is present but open, or not fitted at all. In practice, rear entrance Lodekkas did often go around with the doors open, especially on town services with frequent stops.
LRC's rule book contains a bit of a fudge on this issue - "Platform doors should be kept closed when the vehicle is in motion, so far as is practicable"
The other question is why some were built with the enclosed platform but no door - presumably they were built in a way to keep options open and fit a door at a later stage, but it seems an odd combination.
Whether there was an issue over licensing, management objections, or union objections (e.g. the need for the conductor to return to the platform to open and close the door at each stop - common enough on early single deck buses, but this may have been new on double deckers) could be lost in the mists of time.
One of our members may have some more on this, and I'll alert him to this discussion.
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: David Bowler, Switzerland Sun 27 Jan 2013 17:08
See the book Lincolnshire Road Car 75 by Graham Wise (2003) and the inset photograph on page 78 of the rear of 2311 at Skegness in reversed livery. A cut away rear as any other open-platform vehicle and two windows - possibly a little narrower than those usually employed on an enclosed plaform Lodekka ECW when one window was a part of the emergency exit door.
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: Richard Belton Sun 27 Jan 2013 18:41
I've done a fair bit of research on the Lodekka seating/platform arrangement etc, and I'm pretty certain that the first eight of the (1954 batch) 2301-8(KFW 312-9) always had platform doors(H33/25RD).
The final three however were the standard open-platform (no emergency door in the rear bulkhead, and a smaller two-peice window than the closed platform) and were designated H33/25R.
The first twelve of the 1955 batch however, were delivered with no doors, but the structure around the nsr corner appeared almost identical to that used on the 2301-8 i.e. no cutaway, and an emergency door in the rear bulkhead. These were constructed in a way that permitted the fitment of doors at a later date. Presumably this would involve building channels into the floor for the door-runners to sit in?
Subsequently, in April 1956 the LRCC board sanctioned the ordering from ECW for twelve sets of doors for vehicles
2312-23 at a total coast of £600 (£44 per vehicle) so I assume these were fitted later in 1956. I would imagine that the door fitment would also involve the repositioning of the entrance-door partition litter bin, onto the the door itself?
Perhaps the next time a Lodekka from a similar period visits the LVVS, it might be interesting to compare its platform with that on 2318, just to see if there is a noticeable difference.
2323 was also the last LRCC Lodekka to feature the long-apron from new, although quite a number (but not all) of the earlier ones did have their's changed for the later more modern type.
The second dozen of the 1955 batch were standard open-platform but the luggage area over each rear wheel-arch was replaced by a seat making them H33/27R.
The remainder of the LD's & FS's were all H33/27RD with a traditional platform arrangement.
I've not been able to find an image of the rear-end of the Base Toys model, but an excellent explanation of the different platform styles fitted to ECW Lodekkas is featured on page 139 of the 'ECW 1946-1965' book by Maurice Doggett and Alan Townsin - a book I would recommend to anyone.
Hopefully this wil be of use.
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: David Bowler, Switzerland Mon 28 Jan 2013 8:28
Thank you for your helpful comments. I thus understand that 2309-2311 had the cut-away open platform with the two rear windows. You will find a rear view of the Base Toys model (in Crosville Tilling livery) on the Hattons website: http://www.ehattons.com/58985/Base_Toys_B101_Bristol_Lodekka_LD1_open_platform_long_radiator_Crosville_circa_1954_1969_/StockDetail.aspx
I'm familiar with the Doggett + Townsin book which of course broaches the question what style of "standard open platform" - 2 small windows as 2309-2311 or one large rectangular window, e.g. as BH+D or BOCC - did the "second dozen of the 1955 batch" have? Any idea where 2309-2311 were based - always Skeg? Once again my thanks, Regards David Bowler
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: Richard Belton Mon 28 Jan 2013 23:30
My pleasure. The second 1955 batch of twelve Lodekkas 2324-35(NBE 127-38) which were delivered during September October, and November 1955 had identical platform arrangements to 2309-11. The only difference I can tell from the photos I have, are a slightly different positioning of the rear lights, and the fact that the 'NBE's had a t-type rear destination blind, as opposed to the full-width three aperture display emplyed on 2309-11.
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: David Bowler, Switzerland Tue 29 Jan 2013 8:29
Excellent! Thank you. Now have you any idea of the depot allocation of 2309-11 and 2324-35?
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: Richard Belton Wed 30 Jan 2013 22:48
They appear to have congregated at Scunthorpe depot, no doubt because they had a higher percentage of town routes than the others. In June 1965 things were as follows:
2309 Scunthorpe (SC)
In addition to this though, various members of the two batches did operate at Skegness, Boston, Holbeach & Sleaford during the 1960's.
Lincolnshire Road Car open platform Bristol Lodekka LD (information sought)From: David Bowler, Switzerland Fri 1 Feb 2013 7:49
Thank you very much indeed. All very helpful.
Best regards, David